450 / 500 & Windspeed

**hedge** · 22-02-2012 08:02 PM

I started with a 450. In the wind everyone suggested I get a bigger heli. Well I did I bought a 600, funny thing is that once i had learned how much the 600 cost to crash the 450 became my default heli test so no matter what the wind the 450 will go it first just so I get my thumbs in then assuming the 450 is not in a bin bag the 600 goes out to play.

The point being the 450 will handle everything the 600 will and if the 450 can't it's a £20 crash repair saying don't fly the 600.

**monsul** · 22-02-2012 08:49 PM

I've flown my 500 (flybarred) in 30 mph gust winds (according to the forecast, don't know the real speed). It's challenging and the heli moves really fast in downwind. That being said, it's good practice

The difference in price between a 450 and a 500 is not that big, I would get the 500 just for the increased wind resistance

**trillian** · 22-02-2012 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by AcidDrink

Tbh, after last season of flying, I think in this country (at least where I live, SE), you need minimum 550 size (preferably a 700) because of constant windy weather, if you want to fly every weekend.

Obviously it varys in different areas but down this way it seems like it has been too windy (or borderline) for my 450 most of the winter. I got quite a bit of flying with the 450 last summer and pretty late into the autumn but lately it seems like it's so frequently in the 20mph range or more on gusts. The days that were too windy for the 500 were nearly too windy for anything.

450's are qreat when it's bright and sunny and fairly calm. The other problem I find in winter is low light making visibility an issue and I got a bright orange canopy for the 500 that works pretty well in those conditions.

My 500 is the original flybarred version and the stock paddles are really too light, so I added a bit of weight to them probably about 5 grams and this makes a big difference. They probably need to be a bit heavier still for proper hovering in wind (and the cyclics are still plenty fast for the aero stuff).

**anti** · 22-02-2012 11:25 PM

Thanks all for the help. It looks like 500 is the way to go, a whole lot of positives to very few negatives as far as I can see. I think if cost is going to be an inhibiting factor (within reason) then I picked the wrong hobby, haha. It looks like the blades are the real killer, repair price wise? Still, if I get to fly it more then it's worth the more expensive repair costs.

**Syclick** · 23-02-2012 07:22 AM

You don't really need expensive blades - at least not until you can throw the bird around a bit .... and even then you won't see a huge advantage.

**Bikermurg** · 23-02-2012 09:02 AM

Interesting topic Anti, This has been on my mind too for when i get my first Cp heli. It has been windy here on the island lately but as i type the wind has dropped and the sun is out, might get the bee out later.
lots of things to think about.

**helimadness** · 23-02-2012 09:06 AM

I Just got my first real heli. Trex 500EFL and love it. Was really worried about crashing it when I first built it as look ssssooooo good. Got some decent training skids and have done about 40 flights now and no crashes. Last 10 flights the landing gear taken off. I got stuck in about 20 knots of wind with no idle up and ended up that dot in the sky. By some act of god I got it back without crashing but was very scary. Now use idle up. 500 is way bigger than the 450. I think a lot better to learn on. The 3gx system seem really stable in beginner mode with the right setup. Im sure this helped a lot with stability.

**PeteStewardson** · 23-02-2012 09:26 AM

You can buy Align blades cheap enough, slight seconds if you want to keep the costs down a bit.

I went through creating a spreadsheet of general parts replaced in a crash. I did two types of crash, a fairly light one, and a heavy crash. My numbers came out at

450Pro - Light crash £33.22, Heavy crash £112
500efl - Light Crash £60.67, Heavy crash £161.80

Both of these were assuming a FBL heli, you don't damage servos in either crash ( which is probably unlikely in both cases ) and you'd need blades in both cases. ( slight second Align ones )

The light crash is assuming boom, boom supports, TT, blades, tail control rod, main gear, feathering and main shafts.
The heavy crash is assuming you need all above, plus a set of frame sides, tail fin, blade grips landing gear, canopy, tail gears.

**trillian** · 23-02-2012 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by anti

Thanks all for the help. It looks like 500 is the way to go, a whole lot of positives to very few negatives as far as I can see. I think if cost is going to be an inhibiting factor (within reason) then I picked the wrong hobby, haha. It looks like the blades are the real killer, repair price wise? Still, if I get to fly it more then it's worth the more expensive repair costs.

So far I have tried 4 types of blades on mine. The Pro3D 430mm from Hobbyking, Torsion 430s, Some black unbranded carbons I got from Choppaholic and Align 425s. Of those the Torsions were the most expensive and my least favourite. I am flying it with the Aligns now and they seem like a nice balance in between the heaviness of the Pro3Ds and the lighter feel of the black blades. I think I paid about £25.00 for the Aligns 2nd hand but quite often Align-Trex has cosmetically flawed new ones for less.

I have only had one crash and the damage was blades, a skid strut and servo gears (I have the plastic geared Align 510s but the gearsets are cheap to replace).

**anti** · 23-02-2012 11:18 AM

That price matchup is interesting, Pete. I can have minor crashes in a 450 twice as often as a 500, but I'll probably fly it half as much due to winds. It's very rarely below 5mph where I am, granted when learning to fly I'll only be using those days, but as I progress I'll want to fly it in winds. I'll be keeping the silly stuff to Phoenix and the MCPX for quite some time.

I assume a heavy crash where I lose the canopy I'm probably going to lose a lipo too? And the 500 lipos are more expensive again. I suppose I'll just figure out a budget. I'd like to think I'm not going to crash every weekend, so it's not as steep as it might first look.

The 500 FBL looks like the one for me, but I have a second fear that setting up a flybarless system for a complete beginner might be biting off more than I can chew haha.

**PeteStewardson** · 23-02-2012 11:45 AM

The interesting thing I find is that every crash is different. I've put my TT360 in a few times and once it went in REALLY hard but on it's side. The only damage was some chipped paint on the canopy, blades, feathering shaft and main shaft. Everything else was fine even the flybar was fine. But then I've also had a much much less severe looking crash and I had to replace the canopy, main frames, gears, booms, etc and it ended up a complete rebuild. It's very difficult to say how much every crash will cost.

One thing to bear in mind is that the 450 being lighter is maybe less likely to need as many parts, I think you're more likely to damage lipos on a 500 than a 450 but I'm not 100% sure.

As for FBL, I find a flybar'd heli much easier to set up and get flying. FBL just adds extra 'tweeking' from my experience so far.

**Syclick** · 23-02-2012 12:26 PM

As mentiones above, it's not so much the cost of 500 parts that makes a crash more expensive than a 450 - it's the sheer weight and inertia - more parts get bust.

**cjcj1949** · 23-02-2012 04:48 PM

It depends as well on how much choice you have on when to fly. If you can choose the days you can wait for lower wind. Closer to the sea the wind is higher, but less gusty. It's much more constant higher up as well, well clear of any obstructions. Heli costs are coming down all the time though, at least with the clones.